Categories
science fiction this shit is fucked up worldcon wtf

Well, I sure don’t like this (I’m talking about the Hugo stats)

First, go read Jason’s roundup of info, because he is more measured, cogent, and informative than I could hope to be: Genre Grapevine on the Hugo Awards “not eligible” problem (ETA: Cora really digs into the irregularities at her blog.)

(And you really should consider supporting Jason, because he does solid work all around.)

I don’t necessarily have anything new to add, but I have been reminded that, particularly in such a relatively small group, it can be very worth it to speak up even if the response boils down to a rousing hear, hear! It is all too easy for silence to be read as either assent, consent, or disinterest, and I also know I have my own association with WSFS nonsense as a dedicated meeting attendee.

My thoughts, then, are thus:

  1. This is really fucked up and really upsetting. People being marked as “ineligible” for no cogent reason I’ve yet encountered, despite a plethora of nominations and obvious eligibility. While some of the “ineligibles” are pretty easy to read as politically motivated–and that is already not okay in the slightest–others (I specifically mean here my friend Paul Weimer) make absolutely no goddamn sense in that framing. Not that it would be okay either way. Absolute fucking bullshit, top to bottom.
  2. It’s a massive stain on the Hugo Awards themselves, I would argue far worse than the Sad Puppy nonsense because at least there were no questions there about the admin tampering with the Hugos. So I reiterate: what the actual fuck.
    1. Cheryl Morgan makes an interesting point about this, by the way. The thought that releasing stats with problems as a deliberate act to draw attention is certainly a possibility. Though I find myself wondering why, if this was intended as a deliberate act of whistleblowing, one of the American members of the Hugo Admin hasn’t out and said something.
  3. I am pissed, I’m horrified and… I’m honestly also not surprised that there were some kind of bullshit shenanigans. I chose not to participate in Chengdu WorldCon as a panelist or anything else because of the policies and acts of the Chinese government; while I certainly know the people are not their government, I had massive concerns about either top-down political interference or protective self-censorship. I am deeply saddened and disappointed to have that choice vindicated.

You can consider the above 3 points to be squared, as my housemate Corina shares these opinions. (And doesn’t have a blog of her own, because she is wiser than me.)

I’ll admit, after my initial what the actual fuck, this is fucked reaction, my second thought was, oh boy, the Glasgow business meeting is going to be spicy as hell. Which: good. Deservedly so, if it pans out the way I imagine.

With that in mind, I want to draw attention to another post by Cheryl: Decoupling the Hugos. Please give it a thorough read, and take a look at the draft resolution.

I had a similar thought on hearing the news. Making the Hugo Admin independent of WorldCon could prevent uneven application or different interpretations of rules, say, and provide more continuity. Election administration is only as good as the honesty of the people in charge, but as we in America got educated on thoroughly in 2020, if you have officials and administrators who are answerable primarily to the rules themselves and deeply invested in the process regardless of their potential personal feelings about the results, it can shield you from a lot of interference.

I also, for reasons of my current planned participation in the Glasgow 2024 WSFS Business Meeting, don’t feel I can personally push this proposal forward–and I may very well not be able to debate on it. But I can sure say I think it’s a good idea, and Kevin has crafted some solid starting language, and I hope I get a chance to vote on something like this in August whether I’m sitting on a chair out in serpentine territory or at the table.

We already showed once that, for all its required two-year timeline, WSFS can react to deeply troubling occurrences within the Hugos. I have high hopes that we can do so again.

Categories
worldcon

WSFS Business Meeting – Sunday Liveblog

1003: Meeting is in session. Jared starts off reading a land acknowledgment.

1005: Warren Buff up for report on site selection. This is the first year we’ve had electronic site selection and it was a rousing selection. 323 electronic votes this year, total of 802 ballots expressing a preference. He reads out the write-in candidates; the remaining 776 votes were (unsurprisingly) for Glasgow. There were NO ballots indicating none of the above.

1008: Esther MacCallum Stewart, chair of Glasgow 2024, is up to introduce us to Glasgow WorldCon. She calls up all of her team who is present. A lot of kilts! And people wearing the same tartans. (ETA: It’s called “landing zone” and it’s the Glasgow 2024 tartan.) We start with a video that’s I’m Gonna Be by the Proclaimers. There is a lot of singing and clapping along! Everyone is so excited :)

1013: The name of the con will be Glasgow 2024: A WorldCon for Our Futures.

1013: Esther thanks the previous chairs of Glasgow WorldCons.

1014: Announcement of guests! Artist Chris Baker (Fangorn). Claire Brialey and Mark Plummer.

1016: Ken Macleod. Nnedi Okorafor. Terri Windling.

1019: Prices for WorldCon up. The website should be alive in about 40 minutes. Note that the tartan is going to be available for purchase, either already made into items or just the cloth if you want to make something for yourself!

1022: DisCon III immediately sends $27K in pass-along funds to Glasgow. Dave McCarty gives Esther a ribbon.

1024: In response to a question, Esther notes that Glasgow WorldCon is happening temporally close by to the Edinburgh music festival and Edinburgh Fringe, which is a 45 minute train ride away, and there is a ton of stuff always happening. The Glasgow table will be opened by midday.

https://twitter.com/katsudonburi/status/1566447801122291719?s=20&t=jHnKnVbHdtmhcwFN1lINxw

1026: Warren Buff to report the NASFic votes. 312 votes for Winnipeg. Note Orlando had withdrawn.

1029: For Winnipeg… dang, I missed the names of the ladies who came up to talk about NASFic. I am so sorry. (Someone correct me?) We start with the land acknowledgment for Manitoba; it’s Treaty One (?) territory. Dates for NASFic are July 20-23, 2023. (The Winnipeg NASFic is going to be Pemmi-Con, I love it.)

1032: Question time & presentation for Chengdu 2023. Starting with a presentation regarding the Chengdu facilities.

1045: Questions now. Martin Pyne – when will the dates be set? Ben Yalow – It has been set! It’s on the next PR, but he can tell us now. It’s August 16-20, 2023.

1046: Dave Hook – since Covid is still ongoing, what is the backup plan if Chengdu gets shut down again. Ben Yalow – Boy have things changed a lot over the last several years, and we have another year for things to change further. We can’t really plan on what the restrictions might be. We’re wide open on in person because we don’t know what it’s going to be. We’re also planning a significant virtual programming track for those who cannot attend in person.

1047: Brian Nisbet – Will Chengdu be able to do online site selection considering its success here? Ben Yalow – no decision have yet been made concerning electronic site selection. They’d like to know how things were done here to see what is feasible and if it can be integrated with existing and new platforms. New platform should be rolling out any day now.

1048: Andrew Adams – Visas will be required for many who are regular WorldCon attendees. Will you have information to help people get Visas. Ben Yalow – we’re hoping to get financial government sponsorship of the convention soon, and if that happens we may be able to get some help with getting Visas too.

1049: question about venue. Ben Yalow – Chinese contracting practices are different from what we’re used to. We have an agreement with the venue; there is no contract yet, but there is a general agreement.

1050: Winnton Matthews – What percentage are you expecting to have the programming in Chinese vs Chinese/English. Ben Yalow – A lot of this is going to do with if we get government sponsorship. With the right kind of corporate sponsorship, we have a hope of being able to get simultaneous translation services, but cannot lock that in until we have sponsorship sorted out and see what is feasible.

1052: Mark Richards – For those who are supporting members of Chengdu, what arrangements are being made for Hugo votes etc. Ben Yalow – Correction: everyone who voted or purchased an advance supporting membership for Chengdu has been upgraded free to attending. We are in the process of getting data from DisCon and rolling out a new registration platform.

1054: Terry Ash – What is the timeline on getting the facilities/hotel contract for people who need to do serious advance planning. Ben Yalow – we are still working on this. Right now, travel arrangements between here and Chengdu are quite terrible. Many flight paths have been cancelled. We hope many of the international flights will come back… but that’s out of our control.

1057: End of questions, quick pause to change memory cards in camera.

1059: Now we are back to E.2 30 Days Hath New Business, with Jesi Lipp explaining the committee report on why the rule change is written as it is, which does not actually cause a time loop.

1102: Jared: “Andrew, for what member does the purpose rise? Wait…” Andrew inquiries if this is even a lesser change at all or if it is functionally no change at all. Jared clarifies that it is functionally no change, but we will call it a lesser change to just make it clear why it does not need to be re-ratified next year.

1104: The text of E.2 is amended as written now. No debate requested. E.2 is ratified.

1105: Time for new constitutional amendments! Alan Tupper rises with a motion to suspend the rules and censure the committee of Chengdu WorldCon for not being sufficiently prepared… at a time on Monday morning. There is a second. Martin gets up to say he has heard an objection to consideration. The objection to consideration is out of order as first the body has to vote to suspend the rules in the first place.

1108: Not two thirds in favor of suspending the rules. Moving on.

1109: We are not taking up F.2 To Defuse the Turnout Bomb, Cut the Red Wire, as it has been moved to take up before F.1 The Zero Percent Solution. Kate Secor moves to send F.1 and F.2 to a committee of the whole since F.1 and F.2 are are mutually exclusive so let’s just resolve them into a single motion and vote on that.

1111: We are going into the committee of the whole with Jesi Lipp presiding. No objections to continuing to record. This means we are taking advantage of the looser debate rules; we have been instructed to come out of this with a single motion. We cannot directly change, but we can recommend changes.

1116: Rafe Richards moves that the report of this meeting be to suspend the rules to remove F.2 from the agenda and take up F.1 immediately. Doing one of the two amendments is a very good idea, and he thinks F.1 is a better idea than F.2.

1118: Cliff Dunn against. Adopting F.1 means we could still end up with categories where there are only a couple hundred votes or a handful of people. Feels that there is a point where the community has spoken by broad disinterest. And F.2 speaks to that.

1120: Olav Rokne for. There are already mechanisms for removing categories with insufficient interest; it’s this body. Goes into the history of where the clause in question came from and argues that it has not done the job it was intended to do.

1122: Ben Yalow against. Thinks we should have a safety mechanism for when there is no statistical significance to the result.

1124: Speech for. There are some categories that are more difficult for people to engage with. That does not make those who do engage with them irrelevant.

1128: Committee of the whole disbanded. Jesi Lipp gives the report after Jared called the question (hah). Now voting to suspend the rules. The ayes have it. F.2 is now removed from the agenda and we will take up F.1.

1130: Corina Stark for F.1. Unexpected things happen that can prevent people from nominating and voting in the awards. Those in small categories deserve to be recognized and celebrated no matter how few votes they receive.

1132: Jesi Lipp attempts to call the question. There is no objection. We proceed to the vote on F.1.

1134: Call for division. HOLD ONTO YOUR BUTTS IT’S TIME FOR THE SERPENTINE. Dunno why this is necessary because there’s a lot of ayes… but I guess it’ll get the numbers on record.

1139: 72 in favor, 19 against.

1140: Jesi Lipp calls our attention to paragraph 29 of Roberts Rules of Orders Revised, which states that when the result of a vote is clear, the chair should not allow a call of division by an individual member that will annoy the assembly.

1141: Jared has taken pity on us and given us a 10 minute recess byeeeeeeee.

1155: Back in session. Jesi Lipp is making a few motions. Asking for consent of body to take up F.6 immediately so the maker of the motion can be here. Then moves to refer F.6 and F.5 to committee of the whole. Martin Pyne objects. Andrew Adams for the committee of the whole as F.5 and F.6 are closely linked enough. Martin Pyne brings up that he thinks we can deal with F.6 expeditiously and deal with F.5 tomorrow. Terri Ash points out that F.6 implicates no other category unlike F.5.

1204: Motion to move F.5 and F.6 to committee of the whole fails. Terri Ash comes up to speak for F.6 as the maker of the motion. The artist categories have been so fundamentally bolted to publishing for so long, that it does not actually reflect the way fantasy/scifi is made, put into the public, or sold. Most artists are putting work out there and directly selling it; publishers are not coming to art shows to find cover artists any more.

1207: Lisa Hertel against. Lisa is a professional artist; the problem is that every fan artist eventually offers their work for sale. If nothing else, it lets you eventually get it out of the house. Lisa moves that we strike “for sale” from both sentences it occurs in.

1210: Speeches against. That amendment would effectively continue the status quo. Dave McCarty argues that the difference between fan and professional art is entirely that fan art is available for free.

1212: Diane Castello for. This is not the reality of how fanart works now. Effectively charging for prints, etc, of fanart of other IP to make money…

1213: Ben Yalow manages to put a six second speech against. (“Challenge accepted.”) He at least gets a full independent clause before Jared gavels him.

1220: I brought up the definitional problem of fan vs pro artist. Some understand fan as an artist that just doesn’t charge money, while the newer definition is frankly someone who uses someone else’s IP to make art. And if we’re going to start bringing in professional artists making money off someone else’s IP we are getting into a very sticky place. (I know fanartists do make money in this fashion. I have paid fanartists for such work before, myself. But if we are going to start drawing attention to it via Hugo Award, this could become a massive issue if IP holders start noticing.)

1225: Now we are debating whether to refer to committee.

1231: Voting on the motion to refer to committee and… it is too close to call, so we’re doing a division. SERPENTINE NUMBER TWO. 49 for and 36 against. F.6 is referred to committee. It will be chaired by Sarah Felix and co-chaired by Teri Hertel.

1233: Motion to suspend the rules and take up F.4 Best Game or Interactive Work. The ayes have it, we are doing F.4 next.

1235: Ira Alexandre recognized as maker of the motion. Moves to strike 2026 in the sunset clause to 2028 so it gets the standard five years. It passes to be 2028. Now in favor of F.4 in general. The video game/interactive work category outperformed many other categories in the year it ran and had comparable participation to short form dramatic presentation. This is a golden age of games as art and we should recognize this vital and thriving speculative fiction medium.

1239: Rafe Richards against, bringing the Too Many Hugos argument. He’d rather have a best games hugo than some of the ones we already have, but until we get rid of some of them, he can’t support a new one.

1241: Question is called. Ron objects. The ayes have it, the question is called.

1242: F.4 Best Game or Interactive Work is passed on to Chengdu for ratification next year.

1243: A straw poll is taken up to see if we think we can get through F.3. WE’RE GONNA TRY IT.

1244: Cliff Dunn speaking for F.3, which will have a process for getting rid of unpopular Hugos. He notes that there is a massive social cost for anyone who brings up eliminating a category. Having a mechanism to automatically bring up categories for review means no one has to fall on their sword on the internet.

1247: Andrew Adams moves to make this from a constitutional amendment to a standing rules change. Kate Secor asks how that would effect things. Jared answers: it will take effect at the end of the worldcon and not need to be ratified; could be suspended by a 2/3 majority, which is rather meaningless since it would have to happen before the business meeting; could be amended in a one year process.

1249: Dave McCarty after the explanation of the chair, he feels that it would be better for this to be a two year process rather than at the whim of a single business meeting. Ben Yalow in favor. While he thinks the criteria is too difficult, but either way it remains a two year process, because actually killing a category will require amending the constitution. Kevin Standlee points out that procedurally it is better to make it a standing rule because it is an instruction to the business meeting, not to the convention.

1252: Voting on changing F.3 from amendment to standing rule – it is changed to standing rule. Now voting on putting it in the standing rules – the text of F.3 will be put in the standing rules wherever the secretary deems it appropriate.

1253: Motion to adjourn for the day.

1253: To note, we still have F.5, F.7, and F.8. And… my flight tomorrow is at 1300. So I can *maybe* go to half an hour of tomorrow’s meeting before yeeting to the airport. Yikes.

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Categories
worldcon

WSFS Business Meeting – Saturday Liveblog

Getting started a bit late thanks to a traffic jam at the elevators.

All we’ve missed so far is introductions and a quick reminder on rules. We join this business meeting, already in progress, as we vote for members of the Mark Protection Committee. There are four nominees and three spots.

1016: We are now moving on to the remaining resolutions that were not addressed yesterday. D.5 Solidarity with Ukraine. Chuck Serface, a former Peace Corps volunteer who was in Ukraine, reads a speech asking for our support of the fans in Ukraine. Ben Yalow speaks against the resolution, saying this is not WSFS business as we should not be involved in real world politics.

1020: Perianne Lurie moves to amend the resolution by removing the word “by fascist” due to Godwin’s Law. Debate is extended by one minute for each side. I am not tracking the quick speeches for and against, valid points being made on both sides to be honest. (No one saying what’s happening in Ukraine is okay, it’s more a discussion regarding if calling it fascism is useful or not.)

1028: The removal of “by fascists” is not passed. Debate continues regarding the motion; several of the “against” points were that the business meeting does not have power as a body to make this kind of resolution and it is not within our purview. (I disagree with this point, but it’s a fair one made by Kate.)

1030: Cliff Dunn requests a ruling from the chair on if the resolution is within the purview of the body. Jared rules it is. Cliff appeals the decision of the chair. Jared points out that the word “fans” is in this resolution and WSFS has previously passed a resolution being mad about Pluto no longer being a planet. Time for debate then has expired and no one gets to speak against. The ruling of the chair is then sustained.

1034: The resolution for solidarity with Ukraine as written is passed by the body.

1035: Resolution regarding Sergey Lukianenko is up next. An objection to consideration is raised and does not pass.

1037: Ben Yalow rises with a Point of Order that the WSFS constitution forbids the interference of WSFS is the matter of WorldCon guests, etc. Jared rules is not well taken because the resolution asks and does not direct or otherwise require action.

1039: Ben Yalow against; he agrees that making it mandatory would definitely be across the line. But he feels the line should not be the requirement of unconstitutional action, but rather the attempt to persuade.

1043: After a brief break to change memory cards in the camera. Elspeth points out that we are asking and therefore trying to influence a WorldCon committee and we are not allowed to do that. Time for debate expires.

1045: Cliff Dunn for rises to speak for the chair’s ruling. He points out that a WorldCon removing a GoH is not unconstitutional and we are not asking them to do anything unconstitutional. DisCon removed a GoH and they were allowed to do so.

1046: The chair’s ruling is sustained. We are out of debate time.

1047: Martin Pyne makes the point that per standing rule, there has not been substantive debate so therefore each side should get two minutes. Jared agrees and now each side gets some time to debate the actual resolution.

1049: I’m not going to try to summarize the debate, but I will note in this and the previous resolution, the slippery slope argument got pulled out each time. It is a quirk of mine that I find this line of argument particularly unconvincing.

1053: Resolution D.6 is adopted.

1054: MPC election results: Kevin Standlee, Ben Yalow, Nicholas Whyte

1056: Time for standing rules changes! Up next is C.1 – Making Business Meeting Feedback Possible. Cliff Dunn comes up to speak for. He says that the function of this rules change would be to allow committees–not individuals–to refer matters to the business meeting for debate and direction without actually having to put in amendments that could actually be passed when they aren’t really ready.

1059: Motion to amend to add the word “only” to the motion so that matters may only be referred back to committee. Ben Yalow speaks against the motion, pointing out that this would, for example, yesterday have made the motions be referred back to a committee that no longer exists.

1101: Kate Secor for, noting that this does not specify what committee the motions must be referred back to; new committees could be created.

1104: Vote for the motion to amend. The motion passes but… division is called for. TIME FOR THE FIRST SERPENTINE OF THE WORLDCON there is cheering, see, I’m not the only sicko here.

1107: The standing rules change is NOT amended. Serpentine says NO. Motion to call the question, but there is an objection.

1111: Don Eastlake notes that this standing rules change is not necessary; he is of the opinion that a committee can report back to the business meeting and ask for direction, though it seems the committee in question was unaware of that. A motion to refer this to the Nitpicking and Flyspecking Committee (which is very meta) is made and passed. This standing rules change will (hopefully) be back next year, having been nitpicked.

1113: Next standing rules change, C.2 If You Don’t Have To Print, Neither Do We. Cliff Dunn explains that this year it appeared the concomm was not going to print agendas for the business meeting. And he feels that if there are only electronic copies of the agenda, it should not be required of people with late motions to print out hardcopies; those should be electronically inserted instead into the electronic copy of the agenda.

1116: Elspeth rises to move to amend the motion to insert that a hardcopy should be provided if possible. “Where do you wish that inserted?” “In the appropriate place.” (Kate Secor finds the appropriate place.) It is noted that the availability of hardcopy is an access issue.

1118: Kent Bloom moves to refer to committee to consider the just requiring that harcopy be required,.

1120: Ben Yalow points out that there is obviously confusion as to who is required to do what and that needs to be hammered out first.

1123: The motion to refer to committee passes. Jared tries to make Kent Bloom the chair, but Jesi throws themself on that grenade instead. “Jesi wants it.” “I didn’t say I wanted it, I said put me in charge.”

1124: 15 minute recess!

1139: And we’re back. Starting up with the re-ratification of E Pluribus Hugo.

1140: Dave Wallace rises as one of the originators of EPH to speak for. He feels the overall effect of EPH has been very beneficial; after 5 years, it has worked reasonably well. One question is whether or not it is a black box. He did some analysis of published reports to do spot checking. He did analysis on, for example, the fancast category. I will not try to replicate it here.

1144: David Kaplan against, arguing that the EPH method may push works by marginalized creators down due to a slating effect of members of marginalized communities simply nominating those from their communities. He suggests instead that “no award” voting be used to point toward the existence of slates.

1146: Mr. Richards for EPH, reminding us that EPH came from a crisis point in WorldCon and the valid fear that if EPH falls off, the problem will return.

1147: Lisa Hayes against, calls it a black box.

1149: Kate Secor for, “It’s not that complicated.” To people outside this room, Hugo Nominations are a black box anyway.

1150: Dave McCarty against. Says that bullet voting gets past EPH and people do it both on purpose and inadvertantly. EPH and Five and Six work against each other.

1159: Question is called. We vote, but then… time for another division LET’S GOOOOOOOOO

1201: Question is definitely called. And EPH is RESOUNDINGLY re-ratified.

1203: E.2 30 Days Hath New Business. There is something going on and I’m not sure what. I think there’s an amendment proposed to this thing that’s already passed once? Don Eastlake has the amendment, which would be “this rule may be suspended with a 2/3 vote.” Because he argues this is basically a standing rule.

1208: Sorry for the long pause, having internet problems. Also, we are in the weeds in a serious way.

1210: We vote to take up the amendment to E.2. Then Jared rules that this is a lesser change so it will not need re-ratification.

1210: Kate Secor asks if the amendment will violate the standing rule against creating time loops because it would effectively have the meeting rule on something that occurs before the meeting is convened.

1211: Intense debate happening at the officer table.

1212: “All right, now that we’ve had English 101 here…” A time loop has not been created, per the chair.

1214: I have no idea what is happening any more, please hold.

1214: Don Eastlake moves to refer to committee, to report back tomorrow. Kate Secor argues that we already have so much to do tomorrow.

1217: Committee referral passes. We’ll revisit E.2 tomorrow.

1218: Short pause for memory card change, then E.3 The Statue of Liberty Play. (This is a Nitpicking and Flyspecking Committee thing.) No one stands up for debate, E.3 is ratified.

1222: E.4 A Matter of Days; no one stands for debate. E.4 is ratified.

1223: E.5 Non-Transferability of Voting Rights. Ben Yalow in favor; people who want to be involved can buy a membership. Speech against –

1228: Andrew Adams for – ConZealand got to have a really horrible experience dealing with the membership issue. He doesn’t care which way there’s clarity, but there needs to be clarification on if there is transferability or not. Because they had to make the decisions themselves and it was horrible. It needs to be in the rules one way or another. So if people don’t want this, please clarify it in the other way.

1228: Speech against – feels this is an attack on people with low and fixed income.

1230: Kate Secor for – doing a membership in WSFS and then separating attendance is not so different from professional organizations many people are part of. If memberships in WSFS are transferred there is no one tracking/informing what rights come with it. This would mean WSFS memberships cannot be transferred, but a ticket to the WorldCon can be transferred.

1232: Perianne Lurie against – This effectively makes memberships less valuable. It’s been fine the old way up until now.

1233: Ron Oakes for – fully supports this as a former Hugo database administrator. This does not effect the ability to transfer an attending “upgrade.” The person you sell your upgrade to must simply have a WSFS membership already.

1236: Attempt to call the question, which fails. Debate continues.

1251: Vote on ratification–division is called for. HOLD ONTO YOUR BUTTS FOLKS, THIRD SERPENTINE OF THE MEETING.

1253: Motion is ratified, 46-40.

1254: As we only have a few minutes left, we are going into recess tomorrow. Whoof we have a lot lined up for tomorrow.